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	<title>Comments on: My Reponse to Christian Index Article</title>
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		<title>By: Joe Westbury</title>
		<link>http://kennichols.org/2009/08/my-reponse-to-christian-index-article/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Westbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 21:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kennichols.org/?p=215#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Well articulated, Ken! I do agree that we need to rethink how we &quot;do&quot; missions and perhaps the Great Commission Resurgence will produce the healthy churches that we need to reach North America. That would be my heart&#039;s desire and I live to see the day that goal is reached.

As far as church autonomy, amen to that. That is what makes us so special as Southern Baptists...freedom of thought and to follow the Lord&#039;s leading as interpreted on the local level. There&#039;s one more thing that makes us Southern Baptists – as the saying goes, get two Baptists together and you get three opinions.

Thanks for this forum and for your support of Georgia Baptist and Southern Baptist ministries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well articulated, Ken! I do agree that we need to rethink how we &#8220;do&#8221; missions and perhaps the Great Commission Resurgence will produce the healthy churches that we need to reach North America. That would be my heart&#8217;s desire and I live to see the day that goal is reached.</p>
<p>As far as church autonomy, amen to that. That is what makes us so special as Southern Baptists&#8230;freedom of thought and to follow the Lord&#8217;s leading as interpreted on the local level. There&#8217;s one more thing that makes us Southern Baptists – as the saying goes, get two Baptists together and you get three opinions.</p>
<p>Thanks for this forum and for your support of Georgia Baptist and Southern Baptist ministries.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://kennichols.org/2009/08/my-reponse-to-christian-index-article/comment-page-1/#comment-87</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 20:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kennichols.org/?p=215#comment-87</guid>
		<description>Joe, thank you for your thorough response. I think this type of candor is more helpful than the Index article and addresses the real issue before Southern Baptists. Your statement &quot;perhaps we are entering a new paradigm in how we fund our entities&quot; is key, and I heartily agree. I believe we are, and we must, enter a new paradigm. 

However, I disagree with your assertion that the long-term solution is simply &quot;Supporting the Cooperative Program,&quot; which I take to mean, give more. Your desire to &quot;lift all boats equally&quot; does not resonate with everyone. Part of &quot;accumulated wisdom&quot; is applying what we&#039;ve learned and making adjustments. Things that are well conceived, such as the Cooperative Program, need to be fine-tuned not just maintained. You may not agree with each autonomous church&#039;s decision on how they spend their money, but it is their right to do with as they feel God would lead, and I think the concern of some that we may be reverting back to &quot;mission societies&quot; should drive us all to be willing to re-evaluate the current system and see why. 

Besides that, I would dare say there has never been a pure &quot;Convention&quot; structure because many missional SBC churches support missions/missionaries/ministries outside the CP. Our church continually receives solicitations from state ministries. There are special offerings being held virtually every month of the year and we have the envelopes to prove it. So, I would say we have been selectively &quot;societal&quot; for decades.  

Let me give you an example of my personal issue with the current Cooperative Program, giving the example of our state convention, utilizing percentages and dollar values from http://www.cpmissions.net/2003/State%20Statistics/Georgia.asp.

If a church were to give $10,000 to the Cooperative Program through the Georgia Convention, only $2,058.50 of that would make it to the IMB. Of the original $10,000 gift, $5,883 would be retained by the Georgia Convention. I am in no way saying the GBC is unworthy of support but there is a growing discontent, and deepening conviction that more needs to be done for international missions. 

Herein is my more personal issue. I minister in North America daily. The vast majority of Southern Baptist churches are in North America. The vast majority of Cooperative Program money is spent in North America. So, we have the churches, the resources, the buildings, the people, and we still keep most of the money here in North America. 

In closing, if we waited to &quot;lift all boats&quot; it would take greater than $150,000,000 given to the Cooperative Program through the State Conventions in order to make up the approximately $30,000,000 shortfall the IMB is experiencing.    

 In short, we all have a love for spreading God&#039;s Name to the Nations. We will work this out together, and it may not be the ideal for any of us. But, God will bless and people will believe in His Name. Thank you for your time and ministry in Georgia. 

- Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, thank you for your thorough response. I think this type of candor is more helpful than the Index article and addresses the real issue before Southern Baptists. Your statement &#8220;perhaps we are entering a new paradigm in how we fund our entities&#8221; is key, and I heartily agree. I believe we are, and we must, enter a new paradigm. </p>
<p>However, I disagree with your assertion that the long-term solution is simply &#8220;Supporting the Cooperative Program,&#8221; which I take to mean, give more. Your desire to &#8220;lift all boats equally&#8221; does not resonate with everyone. Part of &#8220;accumulated wisdom&#8221; is applying what we&#8217;ve learned and making adjustments. Things that are well conceived, such as the Cooperative Program, need to be fine-tuned not just maintained. You may not agree with each autonomous church&#8217;s decision on how they spend their money, but it is their right to do with as they feel God would lead, and I think the concern of some that we may be reverting back to &#8220;mission societies&#8221; should drive us all to be willing to re-evaluate the current system and see why. </p>
<p>Besides that, I would dare say there has never been a pure &#8220;Convention&#8221; structure because many missional SBC churches support missions/missionaries/ministries outside the CP. Our church continually receives solicitations from state ministries. There are special offerings being held virtually every month of the year and we have the envelopes to prove it. So, I would say we have been selectively &#8220;societal&#8221; for decades.  </p>
<p>Let me give you an example of my personal issue with the current Cooperative Program, giving the example of our state convention, utilizing percentages and dollar values from <a href="http://www.cpmissions.net/2003/State%20Statistics/Georgia.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.cpmissions.net/2003/State%20Statistics/Georgia.asp</a>.</p>
<p>If a church were to give $10,000 to the Cooperative Program through the Georgia Convention, only $2,058.50 of that would make it to the IMB. Of the original $10,000 gift, $5,883 would be retained by the Georgia Convention. I am in no way saying the GBC is unworthy of support but there is a growing discontent, and deepening conviction that more needs to be done for international missions. </p>
<p>Herein is my more personal issue. I minister in North America daily. The vast majority of Southern Baptist churches are in North America. The vast majority of Cooperative Program money is spent in North America. So, we have the churches, the resources, the buildings, the people, and we still keep most of the money here in North America. </p>
<p>In closing, if we waited to &#8220;lift all boats&#8221; it would take greater than $150,000,000 given to the Cooperative Program through the State Conventions in order to make up the approximately $30,000,000 shortfall the IMB is experiencing.    </p>
<p> In short, we all have a love for spreading God&#8217;s Name to the Nations. We will work this out together, and it may not be the ideal for any of us. But, God will bless and people will believe in His Name. Thank you for your time and ministry in Georgia. </p>
<p>- Ken</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Westbury</title>
		<link>http://kennichols.org/2009/08/my-reponse-to-christian-index-article/comment-page-1/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Westbury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kennichols.org/?p=215#comment-86</guid>
		<description>Hey Ken,

First, let me applaud the good work Sardis is doing in reaching its community. The story on your congregation’s outreach in our February issue is a testimony to the missionary spirit that we wish more of our churches would embrace. Your members have embodied the Acts 1:8 vision and are a credit to the Kingdom and to Georgia Baptists.

Thanks so much for allowing me this opportunity to clarify some of my statements in the Christmas in August article. It is a very difficult issue right now and I fear the message I was trying to communicate will easily be misunderstood, as has already occurred from some emails I am receiving.

My primary concern is not protecting the WMU trademark; that is a very small part of this discussion. My root concern is that Southern Baptists, of which I have been one for nearly 45 years (I am now 57), are quickly losing the vision of fair and equitable treatment of the missions entities that we support. I am afraid much of our accumulated wisdom of how the denomination operates is being lost in the natural transition to a younger generation. I am not wanting to protect sacred cows but do want to be sure a well-conceived missions funding channel is not bypassed due to emotional pleas to support one agency over another.

The “historic” Christmas in August is not a special offering because the Southern Baptist Convention, in a move to limit such financial pleas, restricts national offerings to just three – one for NAMB at Easter (Annie Armstrong), IMB at Christmas (Lottie Moon), and the all-purpose year-round Cooperative Program. The record is clear that all the agencies have agreed to abide by this decision, to live within their means, and not to make special appeals. I firmly believe that any such call for a special offering for NAMB, IMB, or the seminaries should be met by a response from that agency’s president to respectfully decline that call and instead ask all the churches to increase their giving to the Cooperative Program. That way, the rising tide (or should I say, tithe) lifts all boats equally.

But now we are faced with an interesting conundrum. Southeastern Seminary is aggressively promoting the offering nationally and Southwestern Seminary has dug into its pockets to produce its own YouTube video to promote the offering. Two agencies overtly promoting a special offering for another agency is unprecedented in Southern Baptist protocol. Again, who will do the same for NAMB? Are we guilty of playing favorites? Will the IMB call for a special offering for the seminaries or NAMB? Will the seminaries, which produce missionary candidates for both missions agencies, call for a special offering for NAMB? If not, why not?

I have my heart in both missions agencies. I worked for the Brotherhood and later the Home Mission Board and North American Mission Board. My wife and I also adopted two beautiful toddlers from China 13 years ago and named each of them after an IMB missionary. One is even named Charlotte (but don’t think she’ll let you call her Lottie!). So, there is no question in my mind of my love for the work of the IMB.

My fear is that the call for a sacrificial offering for any agency in August will simply dilute the effectiveness of asking our congregations to dig deep again in September or October for our state missions offering. And then again in November as we enter the true Lottie Moon Christmas Offering season. Donor fatigue, though not obvious as first, inevitably sets in. Most anyone can run a 220-yard-dash at the drop of a hat; how many are fit to run a mile, day after day?

Even IMB President Jerry Rankin alluded to this in an August 5 Baptist Press story where he said regardless of how badly needed the special offering may be, it is not a long-term solution. So, what is the long-term solution? Supporting the Cooperative Program.

Southern Baptists have twins called NAMB and IMB. Both have personality differences but both are cherished in God’s eyes. He sees the lost in Montana and Toronto as precious as the lost in Botswana. And He knows that if the proverbial child living in North America is not strong enough to send funds and personnel to help his sister in Botswana, the child in Botswana will die.

NAMB is encountering a serious financial shortfall in its Annie Armstrong offering just like the IMB; it just has not made as loud of a plea. Who will stand up for that agency and request a special offering? What month is possibly left between now and December that will not conflict with another offering? Will we then be asked to provide a special offering for our seminaries? How about for our Ethics and Religious Liberties Commission to extend its lobbying efforts in Washington, D.C.?

You get the picture. Soon we are back to the old societal missions approach where only the missions agencies with the most eloquent speakers or the most emotional stories get a shot at the offering plate. We unintentionally end up playing favorites among our children, and that is never beneficial. We don’t want there to be a runt of the litter.

At the end of the day, perhaps we are entering a new paradigm in how we fund our entities. But somehow I don’t think a return to the societal giving plan, where a church takes up several special offerings throughout the year to fund this ministry or that ministry, is a step forward. We’ve been there and found it didn’t work.

Blessings to you and your congregation at Sardis as you continue to follow Christ’s Acts 1:8 mandate in reaching your community (Jerusalem), state (Judea), continent (Samaria), and world (ends of the earth). You are a vital part of that worldwide quilt known as Southern Baptists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ken,</p>
<p>First, let me applaud the good work Sardis is doing in reaching its community. The story on your congregation’s outreach in our February issue is a testimony to the missionary spirit that we wish more of our churches would embrace. Your members have embodied the Acts 1:8 vision and are a credit to the Kingdom and to Georgia Baptists.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for allowing me this opportunity to clarify some of my statements in the Christmas in August article. It is a very difficult issue right now and I fear the message I was trying to communicate will easily be misunderstood, as has already occurred from some emails I am receiving.</p>
<p>My primary concern is not protecting the WMU trademark; that is a very small part of this discussion. My root concern is that Southern Baptists, of which I have been one for nearly 45 years (I am now 57), are quickly losing the vision of fair and equitable treatment of the missions entities that we support. I am afraid much of our accumulated wisdom of how the denomination operates is being lost in the natural transition to a younger generation. I am not wanting to protect sacred cows but do want to be sure a well-conceived missions funding channel is not bypassed due to emotional pleas to support one agency over another.</p>
<p>The “historic” Christmas in August is not a special offering because the Southern Baptist Convention, in a move to limit such financial pleas, restricts national offerings to just three – one for NAMB at Easter (Annie Armstrong), IMB at Christmas (Lottie Moon), and the all-purpose year-round Cooperative Program. The record is clear that all the agencies have agreed to abide by this decision, to live within their means, and not to make special appeals. I firmly believe that any such call for a special offering for NAMB, IMB, or the seminaries should be met by a response from that agency’s president to respectfully decline that call and instead ask all the churches to increase their giving to the Cooperative Program. That way, the rising tide (or should I say, tithe) lifts all boats equally.</p>
<p>But now we are faced with an interesting conundrum. Southeastern Seminary is aggressively promoting the offering nationally and Southwestern Seminary has dug into its pockets to produce its own YouTube video to promote the offering. Two agencies overtly promoting a special offering for another agency is unprecedented in Southern Baptist protocol. Again, who will do the same for NAMB? Are we guilty of playing favorites? Will the IMB call for a special offering for the seminaries or NAMB? Will the seminaries, which produce missionary candidates for both missions agencies, call for a special offering for NAMB? If not, why not?</p>
<p>I have my heart in both missions agencies. I worked for the Brotherhood and later the Home Mission Board and North American Mission Board. My wife and I also adopted two beautiful toddlers from China 13 years ago and named each of them after an IMB missionary. One is even named Charlotte (but don’t think she’ll let you call her Lottie!). So, there is no question in my mind of my love for the work of the IMB.</p>
<p>My fear is that the call for a sacrificial offering for any agency in August will simply dilute the effectiveness of asking our congregations to dig deep again in September or October for our state missions offering. And then again in November as we enter the true Lottie Moon Christmas Offering season. Donor fatigue, though not obvious as first, inevitably sets in. Most anyone can run a 220-yard-dash at the drop of a hat; how many are fit to run a mile, day after day?</p>
<p>Even IMB President Jerry Rankin alluded to this in an August 5 Baptist Press story where he said regardless of how badly needed the special offering may be, it is not a long-term solution. So, what is the long-term solution? Supporting the Cooperative Program.</p>
<p>Southern Baptists have twins called NAMB and IMB. Both have personality differences but both are cherished in God’s eyes. He sees the lost in Montana and Toronto as precious as the lost in Botswana. And He knows that if the proverbial child living in North America is not strong enough to send funds and personnel to help his sister in Botswana, the child in Botswana will die.</p>
<p>NAMB is encountering a serious financial shortfall in its Annie Armstrong offering just like the IMB; it just has not made as loud of a plea. Who will stand up for that agency and request a special offering? What month is possibly left between now and December that will not conflict with another offering? Will we then be asked to provide a special offering for our seminaries? How about for our Ethics and Religious Liberties Commission to extend its lobbying efforts in Washington, D.C.?</p>
<p>You get the picture. Soon we are back to the old societal missions approach where only the missions agencies with the most eloquent speakers or the most emotional stories get a shot at the offering plate. We unintentionally end up playing favorites among our children, and that is never beneficial. We don’t want there to be a runt of the litter.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, perhaps we are entering a new paradigm in how we fund our entities. But somehow I don’t think a return to the societal giving plan, where a church takes up several special offerings throughout the year to fund this ministry or that ministry, is a step forward. We’ve been there and found it didn’t work.</p>
<p>Blessings to you and your congregation at Sardis as you continue to follow Christ’s Acts 1:8 mandate in reaching your community (Jerusalem), state (Judea), continent (Samaria), and world (ends of the earth). You are a vital part of that worldwide quilt known as Southern Baptists.</p>
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